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Traffic Gnome

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1

Monday, August 26th 2013, 5:48pm

Great Update - Conquer Cities and receive bonuses!

Couldn't find anywhere that allowed me to express my views on this new "Great Update" - so I created my own :thumbup:

Before I can comment in full I guess I need to know what "bonuses" are being proposed by GaS, as these "bonuses" could have major implications for orders and players and how the game is played ?(

2

Monday, August 26th 2013, 6:02pm

Where the hell did my post go that I made?!?

Sigh, well basically not gonna write it out again, but will express my concern with the pending update:

Will this be a global addition or localized? By this, are you adding this to world grouping or individual INT worlds or to the entire HB grouping?

If this is a single large scale addition, I see little point. How would any later world in the last world grouping have a chance against a first world group? Same in the INT worlds where top levels are about half as those in INT1.

Old worlds would dominate, making it absolutely pointless for new worlds to participate even as volunteers. A 5 man order of lvl 130 would destroy a 30 man order where the top level of said order is half that. Then there is multiple character/order deals that need to be address.....again

I can only see this as a viable playing option if it is limited to single groupings or single INT worlds so everyone can enjoy it, not in the HB groupings where only the highest level orders would benefit

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Monday, August 26th 2013, 6:07pm

I imagined it was on a per world group rather than the whole of HW.

Even so, even on a per wold group basis, the "bonuses" have to be considered carefully as we don't want to create an even greater divide between uber-tixxers and everyone else :whistling:

4

Monday, August 26th 2013, 6:14pm

I agree. The addition could be fun, or be a disastrous failure. If they go for HB groupings, I won't even add input as players in my world would have no chance of being competitive. If the single worlds/grouping, then I could add possible rewards.

Regardless, I would think the order itself should benefit, not the individual players as that can put a ridiculous amount of distance between tixxers & players, even more so then it is now.

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Monday, August 26th 2013, 6:31pm

Here's something random for the pot...

City Standard Bearers - a player from the Order holding a City must carry the Standard to battle (losing his/her weapon and shield in doing so), no OM or AC can carry the Standard. When the Standard is carried into battle the whole Order recieves a +7 (or some random figure) stamina bonus to defend the flag. The Standard can only be lost if the city falls.

... or something like that :D :D

6

Monday, August 26th 2013, 7:02pm

This is what I am hearing from a few people. This is basically what was done in AI, and alienated A LOT of people, thus being a catastrophic failure.

This is the letter, published with permission under anonymous status

Quoted

Hi guys,

Not sure who's played AI war or not before, as I have back when it started.

If this new rule is to take effect, I see it will be similar (if I read it properly) to their concept on that game.

Basically, those in orders will be better off as you will gain a percentage increase of work pay by each city you get.

You bid on these cities after HB. The winning orders get announced and they gain a city, which can be taken away through battles though. You can battle to take away a mine (of course only if your in an Order)

If they treat it like AI War though, it WILL ultimately ruin Orders and make for Orders of faith to combine for max donation, members and the ability to win these cities. It will in my thought create hell.

When I was in AI War, it started great but a great list of players left due to these mines (HW cities) like Falcotron, Thomsh, Universal Soldier, etc.

The only difference I see in this is through battle. I am HOPING they do not change how a battle can be done as in AI War, you cannot volunteer. It's either people in Orders that fight and Mercs hired. No vol's.

I can't see them changing that portion, but again who knows, its GAS they can do anything

I am hoping its in a ask/maybe stage rather then definite because if it does get implented on a definite stage, I see the game dying very quickly, especially to those who simply play (like me) just for fun.

For the more serious gamer/player, it will create more wars then just in battles and will see who truly fights for tops in the game.

That's my thought, just sharing


HW is dying as it is. While this may look like a great idea, like I thought, the end result looks to cause more players to leave as a result. Please learn and look at failed installations of other games and try to alter them so results performances are not repeated.

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Thursday, August 29th 2013, 8:26pm

LISTEN FOLKS... the German tixxers are already asking for 10% work pay rise per city held 8| 8| 8|

If you don't want this to happen then you have to speak NOW.


Any bonus must be considered carefully.... bonuses must benefit everyone EQUALLY.... if uber tixxers hold all the cities then the game is lost to everyone....

SPEAK now or forever hold your tongue

8

Thursday, August 29th 2013, 9:57pm

Well said TG. People will not say a word and then when they figure out how horrible wrong this goes will then start complaining.

NOW is the time to express your concerns like TG & I have. Course there will be those people who say we are the only ones, but later when those threaten to leave with an even larger shift between tixxers & normal players, then what?

This is also why a retro world is necessary

9

Thursday, August 29th 2013, 10:20pm

For what its worth I think you guys make sense, although having never played AI War I'm having a hard time envisioning how everything will work. That may be why people are hesistating on the comments, they don't have much info to base a comment on.
That said, I'm all for restricting anything that will increase the gap between tixxer and player.

10

Thursday, August 29th 2013, 10:33pm

I personally haven't played AI either. My concerns are based on the several people who have, thus the exact letter mailed to me with their concerns and education.

I don't think the developers or administrators are looking at how that affected AI, or simply don't care.

ORDERS I think should get bonuses, not individual players based on what I have been educated on.

Honestly I think this is another tactic to get people to buy tickets. What other way is there to unseat a tixxer order then to become one yourself?

Where was the poll for this addition too?

11

Friday, August 30th 2013, 1:23am

For those of you unfamiliar with AI War and Glory War and the way their territory battles work.

Both Ai-War and Glory-War have battles based on fighting over ownership of land (mines on AI-War and Settlements on Glory-War). In the case of AI-War, the Clan gets a work pay increase for up to 5 mines held. Any mines after 5 captures, do not get any additional bump in pay. In Glory-War, there are a variety of settlements the cohort can hold based on player's levels. They also bump cohort wages which maxes-out at 30%. So, for example, if your cohort rules over 4 cities, 3 towns, and 2 villages, in principle there would be a +38% wage bonus. Because of the wage cap, however, this would amount to +30%.

For those of you who have not played Glory war, the type of settlement defines the level restictions for the ruler and all players who can take part in a battle to conquer or defend that location (cohort members and mercenaries).

Village: Level 6 – Level 25
Town: Level 16 – Level 35
City: Level 26 – ∞
Capital: Level 40 – ∞

In AI-War, level 6 and above can fight in all battles as long as they are in the clan/alliance or hired as mercenary.

There are NO Volunteers in battles on either games.

There is a CAP in Glory WARs on the number of Combatants - 72 maximum.
~ Mod 322 ~

12

Friday, August 30th 2013, 1:50pm

I would like to address the comments regarding AI Wars as being a misrepresentation of what occurred in world 1, as having played in that world from the opening day of the world.

First let me agree that the subsequent games that GAS has introduced, Tagoria, Ai Wars, and Glory Wars, all heavily increased the use of ways to fund players use of personal funds to increase their character's competitiveness through a myriad of ways.

In AI Wars you can create an alliance of 5 clans. Only those alliance members can participates in mine battles. The top alliance in English W1 was made up of the majority of the three strongest clans on the worlds. Think of a Holy War battle in any world you play with the three top Orders of world against your order and two or your allies and not having volunteers to make up the difference. All you get are the mercs you can hire. That is basically what ended up killing the world.

It took the players, Falcotron, Blert, DonReality and a few others to get offers they could not refuse for their accounts to basically break up the alliance stranglehold in that world.

The same can be said for Glory Wars also. After the cohorts leveled up up to the point of everyone being able to fight over the largest settlements, the biggest cohort with the tixxers ended up with all the settlements. The problem is not the wages, earned but the imbalance in the amount a person is willing to spend on their account which can shift the world.
~ Mod 322 ~

13

Friday, August 30th 2013, 8:01pm

I will just address the last part. Tixxers controlled all the settlements.

That is exactly what will end up happening here. With that, now tixxers will gain more work pay then normal players, how is that not a problem?

As for Falcotron and the like, I would rather gear from them directly as to why they left. Any assumptions from either the letter person or anyone else is speculation. I personally would believe more tixxing and the like as the reason for leaving, much like it was here

14

Saturday, August 31st 2013, 12:49am

If you take some time to log into the other forums you can read their own words, for example, here is a post on the ai forum written by Falcotron, Blert and a few others on discussing their opinions on tixxing on all the games excluding Glory Wars (it had not been developed at this point). I am sure there are many there by Falcotron too.
~ Mod 322 ~

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Penelope" (Aug 31st 2013, 3:21am)


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Saturday, August 31st 2013, 6:19am

Pen,
Could you post a link to the forum and that thread.
8o Thanks
When Life hands you Lemons grab the Tequila :D
W3-- Ban Hammer Gnome - TC
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W7--_J_--WBS
W9 -- Paladin --KT
IN3 - Ban Hammer Gnome -- IPC
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16

Saturday, August 31st 2013, 7:07am

If you take some time to log into the other forums you can read their own words, for example, here is a post on the ai forum written by Falcotron, Blert and a few others on discussing their opinions on tixxing on all the games excluding Glory Wars (it had not been developed at this point). I am sure there are many there by Falcotron too.

What exactly am I supposed to derive from that thread started 4 yrs ago? Looking through the announcement section, Isaw that the redemption rate was increased at least once (surprise surprise), so a post 4 yrs ago about tixxing means little today. I did a very quick search, and saw one about Falco stating the mines change would start to ruin the world, much in line with the letter I posted: http://forum.ai-war.net/index.php?page=T…mines#post25122

17

Saturday, August 31st 2013, 7:16am

Also, looks like AI War people got into the situation where they started a thread to bribe people to join for that mine deal: http://forum.ai-war.net/index.php?page=T…highlight=mines

Is this what we want in dead worlds? Resorting to going to other Gas games to bribe them so this city deal can go thru?

The more I look at the mine deal and the problems that came with it, the more I want a poll to vote NO on.

18

Saturday, August 31st 2013, 12:26pm

What exactly am I supposed to derive from that thread started 4 yrs ago?


Per your request for their opinion, I linked the resource at hand which was as current as the anonymous player who no long plays the game you cited. There is a wealth of information discussed on that forum between some veteran GAS players regarding AI, TAG, and HW. We would be remiss reviewing their insight into the games and capture it into this discussion.

I would suggest that we work together to minimize any further erosion of the competitiveness of the game that tixxing has caused and try come up with viable alternatives to suggested updates.
~ Mod 322 ~

19

Saturday, August 31st 2013, 2:18pm

1. Limit the number of cities (mines) an order can have. After lets say 3, they need to lose one to get a better one - will keep the world from being under one rule
2. Allow volunteers to join the battles - they can keep in check big orders and can help little-medium orders or can switch sides when someone goes for 30 wins in a row
My 2c regarding this new update

20

Saturday, August 31st 2013, 9:46pm

My suggestion is to not give players any bonus, but to give the order itself the bonus. No single person benefits, thus the difference between tixxing players and regular members would remain unchanged, based on regular rate of people spending their paychecks.

There is also no reason to eliminate volunteers or even cap battles. I personally dislike when major changes like this are created, and totally change the face of the game.

I would further suggest that 1 order hold 1 city. If they have different bonuses, fine, tho still would want an order bonus, NOT individual bonuses.

Such ORDER bonuses I would suggest would be:
- added stat bonuses if attacked
- daily revenue to order funds
- different tactics
- reduced cost for expansion/declaration/spying/etc

Such additions would make battles interesting, yet not skew overall gameplay.

Even 1 man orders should be able to declare, bid on and hold cities. With the radical changes HW and GAS makes that are unbalancing the game, they should also reinstate non premium OMs to be able to declare again and have no restrictions on member size for declaring.

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Saturday, August 31st 2013, 10:57pm

Some of your ideas are interesting, Kinji, and having the city bonus apply to the order directly and not to any individuals appeals to me.

Just something I noticed and can comment on, you mentioned not having any first hand information on why a number of people had left... I spoke with Falcotron quite a bit as he was leaving, since I bought a significant number of his accounts.

Allow me to share some small selections (Falco and I both have a tendency to talk at length:

Why he left AIW:

As for me leaving--well, if HW survived Prof, dasha, Grog, and Carus
leaving W1; Wheedie, gbirch, and Mangle leaving W2; etc., it should
survive me. The funniest thing is, the person whose leaving seemed to
take the most fun out of the game was Morganna, even though we didn't
talk that much, we didn't always get along, she was never in charge of
any dominant faction, etc. I don't know if it was a "straw that broke
the camel's back" thing or if she really was that much a part of the
spirit of the game.

Anyway, the changes in AIW are definitely very interesting. You can
see that they were trying to solve all of the biggest problems people
complain about in HW and TG with the orders-and-battles system.
Suicide squads are worthless, people can't volunteer for their faith
or as part of a side deal, people can't jump in arbitrarily for xp,
the attacker isn't guaranteed to win any battle as long as they're not
too dumb to prebook mercs, alliances make a huge difference instead of
just being there for show, a faction can't get any bigger than 250
people (which is still more than big enough in English, but in German
it's a real limit), etc.

And to a large extent, it works. And, while at first everyone thinks
it means the defenders have too much advantage, it doesn't seem to
necessarily work out that way.

When I was still playing in the German world, the attackers won about
half the time. That may just be because everyone, on being attacked,
always declares an immediate counterattack on the same clan or one of
their allies, which means they're throwing away the 16-hour advantage
completely. But whatever the reason, the balance works out.

In the English world, before everyone shifted alliances, the only time
anyone was ever able to beat CORP was on the attack, because they were
able to spend days coordinating with other clans and prebook every
merc in the world. After the shuffle, I'm not sure, but the limited
number of mercs, the fact that the alliances are willing to make deals
with each other for joint attacks (even though the whole point of the
agreement was to have half the world left out of every battle), etc.,
may mean the attackers' advantage still slightly outweighs the
defenders', or at least that it's still close.

There are a lot of ways that AIW is a much better game than HW and TG.
If only they'd been able to attract more players. I think the fact
that half their advertising was apparently in Eastern European
local-language sites was the biggest problem. For the first two
months, the game was full of Romanians and Czechs and Hungarians and
so on who barely spoke a word of English. Needless to say, almost all
of them fell away or became megacows.
W1EN - Forge - tc
W2EN - Forge - tc
W7EN - Forge - WBS
W2PL - Forge - WBS

22

Sunday, September 1st 2013, 12:26am

I completely forgot about the time window in ai wars for theparticipants to join the battle. That actually made the battles really interesting from a planning stand point. Your clan members had to actively log into their accounts during that time period and join the the battle and also for merc hiring (no auto joining a battle just because they belonged to the clan as an attacker or defender). It made it especially interesting when hiring mercenaries for the attacking party since you had to have all your hiring completed 8 hours prior to the battle and the defenders could go right up to the the battle time.

Advertising has been a long running complaint too. I haven't seen an advertisement for this game since a few weeks after the opening of world 5.
~ Mod 322 ~

23

Sunday, September 1st 2013, 4:34am

With all due respect to Forge & Penelope, I could care less how AI works, and don't want whatever battle system they have transported here (this is more a knock on how GAS operated, not your discussions on AI). Battles have always been 12 hours from declarations, and should NEVER be switched to the 8/16 hour format or whatever AI has. Don't fig with something 6 yrs after making it.

Honestly the games should be kept separate, and for good reason. If they do end up tossing the city deal in (which I guess they are, without a poll of any type to ask if players want this), then keep the current battle time setup and not start making all GAS games the same.

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Sunday, September 1st 2013, 9:54am

OK here is my two cents lol
1. Falcotron, blert, DonReality and all those mentioned made this game and forum fun. Most of the time without bans, warning and childish behavior. Helped players and proved that u could beat big tixxers in battles. W6 had an Uber tixxer and Don and crew drove him nuts.
2. We need something to level the field. Short of a retro World using the modles may be the best shot. It has to come from looking at the pros and cons of the changes in the other games tben discuss it logically. I like the order only bonuses, territory limits and that players have to log in to go in an order battle. I also feel the limit on order size to declare should go away and non prem OM'S should be able to declare. I do think active battle participants that belong to the winning order should get some kind of perk.
Also GAS has for to advertise. Period.

Lastly when all changes are done or scrubbed consider the retro world and make sure they advertise it heavily in advance and let all the old player's know as well.
When Life hands you Lemons grab the Tequila :D
W3-- Ban Hammer Gnome - TC
W5 --Opoton -TUA
W7--_J_--WBS
W9 -- Paladin --KT
IN3 - Ban Hammer Gnome -- IPC
IN4 --Ban Hammer Gnome- SOUL
I am not addicted 8o I swear I ain't :S
MOD -618

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "jim pruitt" (Sep 1st 2013, 10:11am)


Traffic Gnome

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25

Sunday, September 1st 2013, 1:32pm

If we are going to have Cities to fight over and control then lets make it more strategic and more fun, so lets

1. Remove the 2hr log-in safety rule - if a player (at whatever level) hasn't had a safe fight in the last hour then they are open to be hit by anyone
2. Remove the 8hrs work/free heal - I would like to see battle pre-hits mean something again
3. Allies of an Order, whether attacking or defending, are automatically drawn to battle camps
4. Attacking or defending Orders that hold Cities get double XP (similar to Holy Battles), volunteers only get normal amounts of XP
5. Orders that hold cities gain a stat bonus, during battles, for holding the city - for example City-holding Orders that attack get +10 strength, +10 agility. Defence of a City get +10 attack, +10 stamina. Mercs, allies and volunteers don't get this bonus.
6. Cities can generate taxes, from the inhabitants of the City?, which can supplement Order donations. The tax received is a percentage of the amount of gold donated. That is, an Order members donates, say, 1,000 gold. This donation is topped-up by 25% from City taxation so the total amount received to the Order is 1,250 gold. The tax could be anything 10%, 25%, 50%. Orders can spend this donated gold as normal.
7. Each City possesses a special weapon or armour, helmet or shield, this will be found when a City is first occupied. The special item provides the holder with unique powers. These powers are linked to the players level rather than a direct plus "x" to a particular stat. For example, The Shield of Strasbourg has level x3 stamina. Therefore a level 100 player with the shield would have a 300 stamina stat while they were in possession of the shield and a level 120 would have 360 stamina. If an uber-tixxer held the shield then they would have to decide whether holding it was an actual advantage, as they may already have stamina at greater than 3 times their level and holding the shield would actually mean a reduction in stamina. Each City would have their own special item and each item would increase a particular ability. These items can be lost to other players in a 1 vs 1 fight but not in battle. Players can hold more than one special item.

just a few thoughts

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26

Monday, September 2nd 2013, 6:59am

TG for the most part I like your suggestions. Especially doing away with per battle work healing. Make prestrikes mean something. I however do feel their should be a limit to how many unique or special weapons one can hold. All that will do is cause the ubers to hunt them down like they do now and hold them all.
When Life hands you Lemons grab the Tequila :D
W3-- Ban Hammer Gnome - TC
W5 --Opoton -TUA
W7--_J_--WBS
W9 -- Paladin --KT
IN3 - Ban Hammer Gnome -- IPC
IN4 --Ban Hammer Gnome- SOUL
I am not addicted 8o I swear I ain't :S
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Monday, September 2nd 2013, 10:57am

But that is the point jim.... these new special items do not necessarily mean an increase in stats for ubers... it could mean a decrease in stats :thumbup:

I'm trying to think of a way that an average joe player could benefit without making the ubers even stronger. My thought was if each special item was linked to a players level and multiplied by a fixed number then average joe would see a significant benefit but the ubers would potentially receive a penalty for holding the special item. If the ubers want to hold more than one special item then those penalties would apply to a whole range of stats depending on what they held. Conversely average joe could see a significant rise in a range of stats and could possibly contend with an uber.

Another thought I had was...

8. Holding a particular City could provide members of that Order a reduction in the price of horses, weapons or equipment. For example, if an Order held London then all members would receive a 10% on all horse purchases from the Stables. If an Order held Berlin they would receive a 10% reduction on shields from the Blacksmith etc etc

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Monday, September 2nd 2013, 11:17am

Ahhh I got it. Lol great idea. Kinda like buying horses or gear way above your level. Makes sense.
There should be things that both help and it harm.
Also like the idea with discounts.
I was thinking about the allies automatically getting drug into battles. I think that is a great idea as well. Upside your allies have to do their part. Also I see it making orders limit the number of allies as the more u have the more battles you get snatched into.
When Life hands you Lemons grab the Tequila :D
W3-- Ban Hammer Gnome - TC
W5 --Opoton -TUA
W7--_J_--WBS
W9 -- Paladin --KT
IN3 - Ban Hammer Gnome -- IPC
IN4 --Ban Hammer Gnome- SOUL
I am not addicted 8o I swear I ain't :S
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Monday, September 2nd 2013, 1:08pm

Sorry, I should point out that my suggestions are not anti-uber tixxers... quite the contrary, I am looking for ways that both GaS and average joe can benefit from the next update.

GaS will benefit through the above suggestions as ubers can and will continue to use tixx to increase their stats etc. Average joe will benefit through new items that could potentially increase their stats and become competitive against any uber - as a by-product GaS also benefit as average joe will continue to play the game and buy their 3 tix a month for prem and BH etc. Also new average joe players may join as Worlds no longer seem completely hopeless and long-term players may remain as the new items and Cities will re-invigourate an interest in the game :)

I'm not suggesting any of the previous ideas are perfect - more that they are something that can be worked on.

For example, maybe the special items cannot be lost in 1 vs. 1 fights and can be sold in the market, with no max or min price8o

or

Some Cities do not give benefits.... maybe, for example, Constantinople gives a minus 15 reduction in strength to pagan/christians and a plus 10 to saracens, whilst Liverpool gives a 50% reduction on horse prices only to pagans and Edinburgh gives free whisky elixir heal up to all Order members 8o It would be fun if the City "bonus" was kept a secret until it was taken!! Only the Order that ruled each particular City would know what "bonus" was received... it might be a secret worth keeping ;) or double-bluffing its benefit :D :D

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30

Monday, September 2nd 2013, 9:11pm

Not saying it was. Lol just agreeing that each city or special item that comes with it should help or harm depending on faith like you said. Also that some of the perks should help the average Joe so the can be competitive. On the same the harm factor for certain gear or cities should have an equal negative impact whether you are the uber of all ubers or average joe.
I very much like your faith based ideas for the city perks it non perks. This should include your ability to attack or defend said city. Depending on the city and the faiths of the attacking order. For example Christians attacking or defending Constantinople should take a big penalty while Saracens get a big bonus.
The gear should work the same way. If you are a Christian Excalibur or Joan of Arc's Sheild you get a plus but if you are Christian and you have the saber or say Saladin's Armor you take a hit. That will help or harm all and the negatives or bonuses should add up.that will keep folks from trying to collect and hold everything.
When Life hands you Lemons grab the Tequila :D
W3-- Ban Hammer Gnome - TC
W5 --Opoton -TUA
W7--_J_--WBS
W9 -- Paladin --KT
IN3 - Ban Hammer Gnome -- IPC
IN4 --Ban Hammer Gnome- SOUL
I am not addicted 8o I swear I ain't :S
MOD -618

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "jim pruitt" (Sep 3rd 2013, 2:18am)


31

Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 10:37pm

Well, seems that most that were having a prob with this in INT3 haven't come to express their concerns. That leaves only one thing: dust off that month long ban and reserve a place for me as I will more then likely be not considerate to those who will openly complain in the SB.

32

Thursday, September 19th 2013, 5:15pm

Ok, so we have some info, which doesn't explain ANYTHING on what truly happens. Yes we now know it affects the HB in some way, but fails to mention where the bonuses lie to affect gameplay.

Why do I feel this will have a catastrophic effect on HW?

33

Thursday, September 19th 2013, 7:59pm

What caught my eye in the message was the one about the ultimate conquest of Rome or Jerusalem as the goal of the Holy Battles. What happens once Rome or Jerusalem is inevitably won?