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The Black Knight

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1

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 5:37am

Holy Risk, part 2

Freddy suggested this idea at one point in the past, and I brought it back up a while ago as well Who's left to fight, but we've never really followed it through. Since I raised the issue again in the S-B yesterday, I'm going to re-post and send out a PM as well, in the hopes that we might get some interest. This time, I'm going to include some details.

The idea of "Holy Risk" is converting the existing tedium of DWL attacking Reaper, Reaper attacking TTW, TTW attacking BoW, BoW attacking KT, etc. (namely the exact same battles week in and week out with no meaningful variation) into something with a little bit of strategy involved. In most games I played as a kid, anytime one side got good enough that they dominated every game, we'd split that team up and re-balance the sides so that the games would be fun again. Holy Risk has that as its central tenet, along with the idea of forming multiple smaller orders and setting limits on who can fight whom and at what time.

Step One: The Map:



Second, Electing Captains.

However which way we want to do it, whether we go by the ten strongest players or by election, we pick ten players to form ten orders. If any of these folks is already in a small (less than six people) order, they can keep it, otherwise they leave their current order (don't worry, you can go back in 30 days).

For example, as the ten captains, we might elect:
Castellum de Chantal
Artemis
Buba the Great
Bezza
Jozza
Makso
Jeebedah
Melkor
Erialc
Blert

Note that this is JUST an example; the folks we actually pick could be entirely different. In addition, we could also just pick the ten strongest players and let them pick. This would have the effect of separating the power base and leveling the playing field, and of course, the team captains don't necessarily need to be the OMs of their respective orders.

Third: The Draft

Each of these captains picks their members. Given their respective personal strength (stat-wise), they would pick in order from weakest to strongest (just going according to total stats). We might also want to give additional picks to the weaker players, depending on the stat difference. I will post a googledocs spreadsheet with everyone's stats listed, in order to help people decide. At the moment, I have a sheet here Top 29 players (example), but it's very much outdated (I've been collecting data every 1-2 days, but haven't been posting) and a glitch in the script leaves several of the top 100 out of the sheet. I will manually update the sheet to include anyone who participates who isn't pulled by the script.

Once we have all the players chosen, everyone joins the various orders. Note that this may require a number of players to change faith. To this end, I will purchase a 12-pack of tickets to donate to anyone who can't afford to do this. I'd also ask anyone else who can afford it to donate a few tickets as well, or to split the cost with me, but I don't imagine we'll need too terribly many.

Fourth: Choosing Territories

According to some order we decide each captain then picks territories, one at a time. As in the board game, individual territories have no value on their own but continents do. Each continent allows a specific number of mercs or volunteers, along with one merc or volunteer for every three territories controlled by that order.

Fifth: Battles

Battles would only be allowed in turn, with each order declaring one battle every ten days. In that way, we'd have at least one battle every day. Additionally, battles could only be fought under the following conditions:

An order could only attack a territory adjacent to a territory they currently control.

An order involved in a battle (attacking or defending) could hire a number of mercs (or ask a number of players to volunteer) according to the number of territories they control. 12 territories controlled, including all of Australia (value of 2) would allow 6 additional participants (four for territories controlled plus two for Australia).

Anyone not included in the list of participants (whether as a member of either of the two orders involved or one of the invited participants) would be asked to sit out.


Conclusion: What do we do now?

From what I've seen, the vast majority of us here agree that Holy War has gotten very stale and boring. We have a very limited number of orders at the higher levels fighting the exact same battles, over and over, with changing alliances making absolutely NO real difference whatsoever. If we keep doing the same thing we've been doing, we're going to continue seeing the exact same battles. The people who are at the top of the heap does occasionally change from time to time, but the boredom level does not. As a result, I'd like to suggest that we spend a set amount of time discussing this (let's say two weeks), and then we implement it. As of November 14th, everyone who is participating leaves their current orders and we form the ten orders in question. We give everyone three days time to join their respective orders, during which time the captains also pick their territories, then the battles begin. We set up a Chat zy room for coordination and discussions, as well.

In the meantime, I figure this is what we need to discuss:
  1. Do we use the standard Risk map, or something else?
  2. How do we pick captains? And who should be the captains? Remember that battles will be much simpler, since we'll only have a limited number of targets and participants, and NO alliances, so being an OM or AC in Holy Risk should be a lot easier. Also, battles will be scheduled in advance, with both sides knowing when the battles occur, which should also reduce a lot of stress for both parties.
  3. What do we do about gate crashers?
  4. How many of you are interested?
  5. What changes should we make to this idea?


Anyway... If you've ever complained about how boring Holy Work has become lately, this is your chance to do something about it.

erialc

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 5:44am

sounds good and don't forget I picked Mongolia
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3

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 6:09am

O.K., a few comments:

a) Let's don't elect blert as a captain. I don't trust that guy.

b) What's with this modernized Risk map? Hawaii? Falkland Islands? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

c) erialc, you can start in Mongolia, but I'm laying claim to Irkutsk, and you won't be there for long! :P

d) When do we start? :D

4

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 6:17am

One more thing...

Honestly, once we get started, I think that the biggest problem that we will face is gate-crashers. People who initially refuse to join in will see how much fun we are having, and how much XP we are getting, and they will start joining the battles. Unfortunately, there will be nothing we can do about it, but I guess we will just have to try to balance them out when we can. People in Holy Risk who aren't involved in a fight might be drafted in at the last minute to battles with gate-crashers, and when we can't balance them out, we'll just have to laugh it off, I guess.

But this is a good reason to get as many people as possible signed up from the start. The fewer people sitting on the sidelines, the fewer people from outside crashing battles.

The Black Knight

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 6:18am

sounds good and don't forget I picked Mongolia



c) erialc, you can start in Mongolia, but I'm laying claim to Irkutsk, and you won't be there for long! :P



d) When do we start? :D


As of November 14th, everyone who is participating leaves their current orders and we form the ten orders in question. We give everyone three days time to join their respective orders, during which time the captains also pick their territories, then the battles begin.

I figure two weeks to discuss and three days to set up, which means we start on November 17th, unless we come to an agreement ahead of time, can't get enough people interested, or are still discussing at the end of that time.

And no picking territories ahead of time! :P

We can definitely do a different map, by the way; I just suggested Risk because it's very well known and already fairly well balanced. If anyone wants to suggest a different map, we just need a graphic of it and will need to split it up into territories.

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 6:33am

Holy Risk

I am up for the 2 week discussions we can hammer things out there, maybe a chatroom or something. Or a separate off-site board.....But count me in however it works

7

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 7:42am

I am up for it, but prefer to keep quiet about the territory 8) :D

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 8:26am

I am up for this. I suggested this to HW making the battles mean something.

If you had roles in the game like Faith councils you could biscuss battles etc. And like in my post you could say as TBK mentioned only localised alliances and support can be allowed so battles on the other side of the Map/World can't be supported.

I would focus the map on the Holy Land and focus on regions from turkey down to egypt anf then the middle east to india. (but as they were at the time of this game 1100-1300)

As there are some we developers we could maybe set up a website which shows this progress and development of the game and if one faith gets all the map maybe a resart could be done and we play again keeping it interesting. I would gladly help out with monitoring a website and working in a team to get this going.

I think order size is not important. If you had a faith council for each faith then orders would only be made grown in accordance with the game deveopment that balances the faith anf has the option of gaining regions.

I think we are onto something that goes beyond tournaments and if fantastic but require a massive effort from all players to get it going.

Nice one TBK

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 8:29am

RE: Holy Risk, part 2

  1. Before picking the map, how many countries do we want? It has to be divisible by 10, but do we want 30, 40, 70, ...? I think 40 is reasonable--too many and we'll all border each other, too few and the game will come down to who picks well.

    IIRC, standard Risk has 42 territories, so if we want 40, we'd have to merge two pairs (or mark 2 of them neutral "terra incognita"), which would change the balance. But maybe not too badly, if we knocked 2 countries out of Asia.

    All of the popular variant maps I know of (including the one you posted, which is _not_ the standard map--it's from either TEG or Lux, I think?) have more countries than standard Risk. They also generally make the continents less isolated (meaning more points to defend); is that a good thing or a bad thing for our game?

    However, beyond the popular variants, TEG and Lux come with dozens and dozens of other maps to choose from, or just to look at for inspiration.
  2. Your idea of making it the top 10 by stats seems fine. That also makes it easy to do the draft--the 10th strongest picks first, etc.--and then we reverse that order to pick countries, and then reverse again for turns. Alternatively, make it the bottom 10, same deal otherwise.
  3. Sic erialc on them, and let her order the rest of us around, in whatever plan she comes up with to make their lives miserable. If she can't pull off that challenge with all of us helping, I'll be very disappointed. :)
  4. Me, and I'll contribute a 12-pack of tix if needed for faith changes (including people who want to change back at the end of the tournament).
  5. A minor point: I think we should take up the minimum 3 armies/turn even if you have fewer than 7 territories, as in the board game (and apply it before continent bonuses, so owning all of Australia but nothing else gives you 3+2=5 rather than 2+2=4). In the board game, this means that even when someone is crushed, they can hold on for a while, and I don't think we want to eliminate people too early.

    A major point: Why do the battles have to be a day apart? The game will take forever at that pace. In a real game of Risk, you can conquer Australia in a few minutes; with only one attack per turn (which is required by HW rules) and 10 days between turns, it would take over a month. I realize that having more frequent turns would mean you sometimes can't attack your preferred target, but that should make things a little more interesting.

    Also, we're missing most of the strategy in Risk by having one attack/turn and no army placement (and most of the luck by having no cards and substituting the HW random factor for the dice). I think that's OK, but I wanted to make sure it was intentional rather than an oversight.

    And one I'm not sure about: What about non-Risk battles? If HKOI declares on KDM-R, are the 50-100 of us all mercs, do we maintain our old allegiances, do we stay out entirely?

10

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 11:08am

Just wanted to say I'll play, maybe we should have a seperate thread for sign up.

erialc

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 12:55pm

We can definitely do a different map, by the way; I just suggested Risk because it's very well known and already fairly well balanced. If anyone wants to suggest a different map, we just need a graphic of it and will need to split it up into territories.
With this many people involved I would suggest not giving to many options and just keeping it simple because you'll never please everybody, we''ll get lost in small details and the freakin game will never start :)
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erialc

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 1:03pm

Sic erialc on them, and let her order the rest of us around, in whatever plan she comes up with to make their lives miserable. If she can't pull off that challenge with all of us helping, I'll be very disappointed. :)
hahaha I didn't read the whole thread before my last post...I am Bossy!!!
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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 1:23pm

With this many people involved I would suggest not giving to many options and just keeping it simple because you'll never please everybody, we''ll get lost in small details and the freakin game will never start :)
OK, does anyone have any major objection to the standard 42-country map, with Mongolia merged into China and Yakutsk into Irkutsk? That gives us an even 40 territories (4/team), and reduces the undervaluation of Asia.

http://sillysoft.net/lux/maps/ has a slew of maps if you want to see other options (and I'm sure there's a Middle-East map there somewhere).

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 1:51pm

Rather than go all in why do we not have a small test map say with 3-6 regions basd on the holy land at the time of the game.

We could then get small orders say 5-10 man like my BLACK order to test the strategy as we do not have loads of gold we could lose in the beta. Then we can build it up adding new regions and orders as we design the scope of the game?

Would be glad to help out.

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15

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 3:48pm

Count me in. I'd rather not change my faith though...

If it brings more fun to the game I am up for it.

erialc

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 4:36pm

Rather than go all in why do we not have a small test map say with 3-6 regions basd on the holy land at the time of the game.

We could then get small orders say 5-10 man like my BLACK order to test the strategy as we do not have loads of gold we could lose in the beta. Then we can build it up adding new regions and orders as we design the scope of the game?

Would be glad to help out.
If you go to slow people will lose interest in the idea. I say let's just do it and we will adjust as we go along and what is your obsession with the Holy Land ?(
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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 5:47pm

i have an Idea why not use the HB map? every one can see it.You can have the territories = Citys or some thing?


But im all for it sounds like fun :)
I'm not insane!!! I am voluntarily indifferent to conventional rationality. :thumbup:


Someone once asked me if I suffer from insanity...I said "No, I enjoy every minute of it!"

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18

Sunday, November 1st 2009, 6:41pm

I like the idea and would very much like to participate. Holy Crusade already has 7 members and we will go no further then that (although we'll lose all the time as our levels our low lol)
keep me informed :thumbsup:

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 8:30pm

i like the idea, count me in :thumbsup:

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 10:51pm

To the people suggesting using their existing orders: You will almost certainly be crushed by all of the "expansion teams" made from the draft. Not only will this be less fun for you and your members, it will change the strategy for everyone else--instead of "go for Africa" it'll be "go for whatever Holy has because that's an easy win." I think it would work much better to find someone to leave behind as a caretaker for the order and join the draft with everyone else.

Quoted from "Nakor"

Count me in. I'd rather not change my faith though...
That's an interesting point. If we go with a straightforward draft, probably something like 60 people will have to change faith. Is there a way we can reduce that?

If only 10 people really care about that (beyond the ticket issue), maybe we just make them the 10 captains?
Rather than go all in why do we not have a small test map say with 3-6 regions basd on the holy land at the time of the game.
If by "regions" you mean "continents" in Risk terms, how is 6 that much different from 7?

Anyway, I agree with erialc, we should just jump in and do it. If, after 30 days, it's more boring than normal HW, we all go back to our orders and taunt Freddy and TBK mercilessly over their dumb idea for the next year. No big loss.
i have an Idea why not use the HB map? every one can see it.You can have the territories = Citys or some thing?
Well, for one thing, 24 continents ranging from 1 through 20-odd territories seems like way too many. We'd also have to figure out what connects to what (including water crossings--does London connect to Bologne, Ghent, or both?), and where the continent boundaries are (is Constantinople Seljuk or Byzantine?). This is a lot of work. And all of this information has to be noted down somewhere for everyone to see, so it wouldn't really be any easier to use than a separate website with a map on it (or a picture shared on drop.io, or whatever).

If people really do want a map of the Holy Land, I'm sure Lux has one, and, if not, I could make one up pretty fast. (Especially since nobody cares about historical accuracy, so I could fake it completely and you'd never even notice. Yeah, there's another really big island between Cyprus and Rhodes, trust me....)

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Sunday, November 1st 2009, 11:52pm

lol erialc. my obsession with the holy land is we are playing holy war so seemed relevent to keep it the same. Will play this either way but seemed logical as the game is based on the crusades.

Lets just do it then. I am happy so sign me up :thumbsup:

22

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 1:07am

Listen guys Im level 42 and I'd hate it to miss out. Orders should be balanced for e.g. 3 65+ lvls and 3 65- lvls... I just dont want to be an outcast :cursing:

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23

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 2:53am

Listen guys Im level 42 and I'd hate it to miss out. Orders should be balanced for e.g. 3 65+ lvls and 3 65- lvls... I just dont want to be an outcast :cursing:
To be honest, a level-42 will get very little xp in these battles, and will die even on the winning side, and won't significant affect the battle.

I think the right think to do is to run parallel tournaments for different level ranges. How many? However many there's interest for. If you can find 30 people (6 teams of 5) around your level, and someone willing to do most of the organizational work, you can clone everything we do, even down to the battle times. Or you can change anything you want. For example, if I were level 42, I'd want a cap of, say, level 45 on mercs; otherwise, whoever's ahead is going to be unbeatable, because 5 level-94 mercs against 3 will win no matter who the 42s are on the other side. Plus, I'll bet those level-45s would love a chance to merc every day or two.

If you're serious, as a first step, I'd try writing to the 50 or 100 people above you and below you and see how much interest you can get.

24

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 5:10am

Not being a regular in the forums, I still assume that there is another thread for game enhancements. The only way that I can see for Holy Risk to work properly is for GAS to implement a new kind of order battle. Either a 'no volunteer' order battle or an 'invitation only' order battle. This would eliminate gate crushers and could add some excitement for the non-Holy Risk orders also. It would also drive, non-Holy Risk player to want to join in.

I still feel that if every active order attacked at least twice a week, we would have many battles and that in itself would bring back the excitement that many feel is lacking. Because of the amount of battles, the standard order battles mentioned above would have different outcomes because the amount of volunteers would be different due to timing, elixers to reheal, not enough gold to hire most of the mercs or that thing that some (TBK withstanding) need called sleep. Today, there were four battles in W4 which in itself is a banner day, but two of those battles were against dead orders (yes, there were big payouts, but that is not the point), the third which is about to happen is a small xp battle and the fourth (which also hasn't happened yet) is an order that I never heard of attacking a small order. We are creating our own non-excitement and complaining about it.

I would like to see during the two weeks of set up time for Holy Risk that each of the active orders attack another active order. Not worrying about winning or losing or if there was time to build a warchest for mercs, just battle! This is supposed to be a battle game, but has become a work and plunder game for most. Everyone building stats to have a strong warrior to battle, but rarely having a battle.

Not that I am against Holy Risk and as DWL members well know, I can ramble with the best of them. Just my 2 cents.

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25

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 5:14am

I'm in. I Draft Erialc! Lol or whatever just let me know what's up and what to do etc...

26

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 5:45am

I'm definitely in.. Anything to make the game more interesting. I'm with a few of the others though regarding faith change. I'd rather not. Not that I really care what faith I'm listed as, but I don't really want to give GAS any $ just for a change like that.

27

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 6:09am

great idea you got going on here :)

The only thing i would like to add that when we make the name of the orders as simple as can be...maybe even Holy Risk1,Holy Risk2...etc....might sway away some of the players that don't know what going on...keep them from gate crashing...

Do we set time limit for the game or set a percentage of the map must be conquer before a winner is crowned?

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Monday, November 2nd 2009, 9:40am

How about this to avoid the faith changes:

First, assume everyone would pick the highest stats anyway, so just automate that. Then add in a faith-switching penalty, say, -30 if you're the wrong faith.

For example, let's say Freddy has the next pick. Sadly, all the good people are taken, and the best two left are me (1473) and erialc (1460). But, with the penalty, that's 1443 and 1460, so erialc comes out higher, so Freddy gets her.

A possible variant: Let each person pick their own faith penalty. You can't go below some limit (maybe 30) unless you're paying for your own switching tickets, but otherwise, set anything you want, from 0 (don't care at all about switching) to -10000 (will not switch unless I end up the last pick).

Either way, I think the teams would still come out pretty balanced, and it would definitely cut down on the number of switches needed, and it would be a lot faster than actually having a draft.

On the other hand, having a draft in the SB could be kind of fun.

Black Wind

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29

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 3:23pm

Or...

When you start a sign-up thread (with an in game mass-mail invitation to sign-up), people can sign-up with a little note if they expressly wish not to change faith. Why would a team captain want to recruit someone who is uninterested in playing for their team? (Unless the Captain is willing to change faiths, then it wouldn't matter).

I am curious about back room deals though. Obviously there must be a minimum of 5 members in each order, but if it works out that there are more players per team, would it be possible for trades? "I have a level 95 Christian who wants to be in Holy War Risk Team 3 because that is where his friends are, so you give me your level 93 saracen and your level 90 pagan and we will call it even."

One of the draws of the game will be setting up teams of friends (not necessarily the greatest powerhouses) and setting up back room deals -- "If your order doesn't attack my order for 5 days then we can both attack Falcotron's order everyday because he must be driven from North America and learn humility." A few days to solidify things after the draft would probably work out well and give different orders a chance to plot together to make sure that no one else makes it to the final rounds.

As for gate crashers, I don't think you need to worry about them so much. Considering that most of the high level players have been working together for over a year I think that they will probably respect each other enough to allow things to go smoothly. There might be the odd level 70 or 75 looking for exp, but that won't alter the grand course of events.

In Risk, the defender has the advantage in that they win all ties. Perhaps this should be reflected in the number of allowable volunteers?
*fades like a dream at dawn*

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30

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 4:37pm

I'm in
Don't mind changing faith as long as i don't have to pay lol (i'm poor :()
Want to come to W4? No available (or affordable) characters fo you to get hold of?
Join using my recruitment link and send me a PM. When you reach level 10 i will sell you the best equipment for that level at minimum price, giving you the best possible start.
Depending on your Character Development, there may even be a minimum priced Dragon Sword for you at level 20. Offer only available to the next 4recruits at this time.
http://www.holy-war.net/?ref=19431-4ENHW

31

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 4:45pm

Holy Risk.

I love this idea. I'm in for sure, even though I'm one of the "lowly" levels.

I agree with Snell about being poor, but I think it's a fantastic idea, and hope that it works out.

Maybe the Holy War team can allow for these battles to be "blocked", so that we can restrict access from the potential gate-crashers?

Can't wait for this to happen!!

Blue.

32

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 6:06pm

Listen guys Im level 42 and I'd hate it to miss out. Orders should be balanced for e.g. 3 65+ lvls and 3 65- lvls... I just dont want to be an outcast :cursing:
To be honest, a level-42 will get very little xp in these battles, and will die even on the winning side, and won't significant affect the battle.

I think the right think to do is to run parallel tournaments for different level ranges. How many? However many there's interest for. If you can find 30 people (6 teams of 5) around your level, and someone willing to do most of the organizational work, you can clone everything we do, even down to the battle times. Or you can change anything you want. For example, if I were level 42, I'd want a cap of, say, level 45 on mercs; otherwise, whoever's ahead is going to be unbeatable, because 5 level-94 mercs against 3 will win no matter who the 42s are on the other side. Plus, I'll bet those level-45s would love a chance to merc every day or two.

If you're serious, as a first step, I'd try writing to the 50 or 100 people above you and below you and see how much interest you can get.



I love the idea but im not much of an organiser... hope I dont miss out :(

33

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 6:20pm

Holy Risk, part 2

This is a great idea, and will add an extra dimension to HW, count me in, as regard faith changes that's something to be discussed later.

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Monday, November 2nd 2009, 8:02pm

One of the draws of the game will be setting up teams of friends (not necessarily the greatest powerhouses)
One of the original arguments for this idea (when TBK was trying to convince people to go along with Freddy the first time) was that it would force people to work with people they didn't normally deal with.

But I notice it seems to be selling better without that part.
and setting up back room deals -- "If your order doesn't attack my order for 5 days then we can both attack Falcotron's order everyday because he must be driven from North America and learn humility." A few days to solidify things after the draft would probably work out well and give different orders a chance to plot together to make sure that no one else makes it to the final rounds.
Remember that we can't go around the rules of HW. If you trade 2 for 1 and end up with 4 people, you can't attack anyone; if you attack an order you can't attack them again for one week; if you attack on the weekend after a minor holiday the game crashes and the attack doesn't work....

Most importantly, trades across faiths will cost a ticket now, and possibly another one at the end of the game. Who's going to pay for those? A few of us are willing to contribute tix to get the game started, but I don't think any of us are willing to pay for people to trade later on. Do the trading OMs have to pay (and work out which one pays as part of the deal)? Can players reject trades that would require a faith change

Besides, I knew Humility, I worked with Humility, and you, sir, are no non-premium AC of a near-dead W2 order who posted hilarious after-battle reports involving Mangle's castle o' female servants.
In Risk, the defender has the advantage in that they win all ties. Perhaps this should be reflected in the number of allowable volunteers?
Well, the defender also has the disadvantage that they only get to roll 2 dice instead of 3.

Speaking of that FAQ, it looks like there are actually a wide variety of different rules, so we should probably pick one (unless we want to go through all the variations and choose one by one), like 1980 US rules or something.

I didn't want to bother calculating the odds, so I googled and found this Risk FAQ. If you play with the house rule where the defender gets to choose whether to roll 1 die or 2 after seeing the attacker's roll, the defender has a tiny 1.001:1.000 advantage. Without that rule, the attacker has a small but significant 7:6 advantage.

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35

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 10:09pm

I'm in. Give me the Urals and point me at the bad guys!

Also, I have LOTR Risk. It has a rather nice and not-at-all familiar map that I could scan for our uses.
W1EN - Forge - tc
W2EN - Forge - tc
W7EN - Forge - WBS
W2PL - Forge - WBS

Black Wind

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Monday, November 2nd 2009, 10:38pm

Most importantly, trades across faiths will cost a ticket now, and possibly another one at the end of the game. Who's going to pay for those? A few of us are willing to contribute tix to get the game started, but I don't think any of us are willing to pay for people to trade later on. Do the trading OMs have to pay (and work out which one pays as part of the deal)? Can players reject trades that would require a faith change


I was thinking that maybe a "post draft" trading day might mitigate the need for some players to switch faiths. True, you couldn't do a multi-player trade if it brought your order below 5 members but I wasn't sure what scope was being contemplated. 3 five man orders? 6 eight man orders? Seems like there is enough support to field more than 4 orders; hell I would play if I had a decent level account.
*fades like a dream at dawn*

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Monday, November 2nd 2009, 11:13pm

I'm in (though clueless how it would work).

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38

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 11:18pm

count me in....anything to make the game interesting again has to be worth a try :-)

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39

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 11:22pm

I am in.

Are we setting up a website for this? E.g Rules, Intructions, Map (for game development & Current game), Forum and round sequences and turns?

bigbird/

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Monday, November 2nd 2009, 11:23pm

Ok ill drop ttw and im in we need to do it im getting board